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So...the recent war on women's health...I have a question

I'm asking this from a sincere place of wanting to understand differing views, and although I think a lot of us tend to lean in a similar direction, I am still a little leery...but here goes...

 

I support abortion rights.  Absolutely.  I had to come to terms with my feelings on that to a degree because I tended to think of it in terms of young teens or college students who got pregnant and didn't want their whole lives derailed.  Or single moms who were trying to improve their family's position etc.


Then, I had a friend who got pregnant.  Stable marriage, one child, happy, financially sound.  And she had an abortion.  It rocked my view a bit.  If I was to turn up pregnant in her same circumstances, I wouldn't really even consider it.  


Then I realized, that I can't really know her circumstances.  And I don't get to make those kinds of judgements.  I either support her right to make that decision for herself, or I don't. 

 

And I do.

 

Having said that, I am not necessarily in favor of abortion anytime under whatever circumstance.  I have friends who have had "late term" abortions due to fetal issues (anencephaly - essentially, no brain beyond the stem) and they were awful choices to be made, but I understood them.


But does that mean I have to support someone's right to terminate what could be a viable infant...just because?  I realize that these situations are probably more rare than the Santorum crew would have us believe, but I'm sure there are cases where women/girls just can't bring themselves to deal with the issue, and suddenly they are 27 weeks pregnant with a presumably healthy fetus, looking to end it.

 

I don't think I can support that.  There are too many children born at that gestational age for me to not to see the line between fetus and baby get really blurry.

 

Is it "wrong" or "not feminist" of me to think that, barring extraordinary circumstances (like infant viability, age/health of woman etc.) , an abortion should be performed before some certain gestational age?


What say all of you?

Tags: abortion

Views: 277

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Permalink Reply by Floor Pie on March 15, 2012 at 1:16am

If I had a major IUD fail now, at 42, with all the other stuff on our plate right now, I would choose to end the pregnancy. If it didn't end itself, of course, which it probably would since I'm the Queen of Early Pregnancy Loss. As awful as my early miscarriages were, it helped me draw a firm distinction between "baby" and "pregnancy." I couldn't think of them as lost babies or it would have just about killed me. I had to regard them as something unviable; something that wasn't meant to be. So if, Zod forbid, I found myself in a situation in which I might choose to end the pregnancy, it would be slightly easier to do because I have developed a schema for that kind of loss.

 

Also, I wouldn't tell anyone outside of the family. I'd be afraid of reprecussions, as paranoid as that sounds.

 

But, you know, since my husband's employer provides a health plan that paid for this delicious IUD, I have a pretty good chance of never having to be in that shitty situation. Yay for worry-free marital sex! (What a slut I am...) 

Permalink Reply by Herasmus B. Dragon on March 15, 2012 at 2:34am
MM, I understand your concern over late-term abortion, after all, I've seen what a 27-weeker looks like so I can't imagine anyone killing one. And yet, as hard as it is to know that someone, somewhere, is considering it, I have to support them in theory. I don't want to know about it, but I'll support it. I'll be mad at her if I do know about it, but I'll support it. Because it really is an all-or-nothing situation, abortion rights. That doesn't mean we all have to like and agree with each and every anecdote.
Permalink Reply by Joe Mama on March 15, 2012 at 5:47am

I have spent a lot of time talking and thinking about this very question lately. I have to say my thinking has mirrored Mommy Monster's in many ways.

 I know that the mythical selfish woman who decides at 37 weeks that she can't be bothered delivering a healthy baby is a red herring - theoretically possible, but unheard of on a practical level. I am comfortable saying that I find the idea of such an act morally repugnant and I don't think my pro-choice, pro-family , pro-woman friends are advocating such a decision when they/we say we support a woman's right to choose. I wonder, however, if by not acknowledging that there is a murky moral area (is 39 weeks too late? 35? 30?) we end up limiting an important conversation by well-meaning and thoughtful people on the other side of the debate.

I'm sorry if I didn't phrase this well. I respect the time and thought that people have put into their comments on this thread. I know you are examples of the women who are pro-choice and pro-child. I truly believe you all care deeply about the rights and needs of the women who have to make these decisions.

Permalink Reply by mightyninjamom on March 15, 2012 at 6:34am

I don't know about 'wrong' or 'not feminist'...perhaps 'idealistic' is a better word.

I've often thought that in governing people, it's good to have ideals, but they tend to only work in the best possible scenarios. Reality dictates that we have to govern in a way that takes into account that people make mistakes.

Permalink Reply by Mommy Monster on March 15, 2012 at 7:49am

Judging my friend? This is from my OP:

 

Then I realized, that I can't really know her circumstances.  And I don't get to make those kinds of judgements.  I either support her right to make that decision for herself, or I don't. 

 

And I do.

mcglory13 said:

It's possible the anecdote is clouding the larger issue, and it's possible they are inferences (though it did seem you were judging your friend for her choice and the implication was it was the wrong one, to me).

 

It's a topic people have strong opinions on, I see the validity of discussing it, but I also wouldn't be surprised that people have these strong opinions? I don't know why you're sorry you asked, but it seems like your not open to an honest opinion.

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I don't know how to turn off the stupid quoting format....grrr.................

I am open to an honest opinion.  My anecdote was included to show how my thinking on the topic has evolved over time.  I was looking for more thoughtful input that might lead to more evolution of my ideas on it.

 

I'm not open to people assigning "implication" to what I went out of my way to say wasn't there, or sending me to statistics that I already acknowleged in the OP (which to me insinuates that I'm not educated enough about the stats to pose my question), or that patronizes me by invoking pink unicorns.  

 

I realize it's a hot button topic, especially right now (also acknowleged in the OP).

 

Why do I wish I hadn't asked?  Despite what you think, it's not because of the opinions.  It's really more about the tone. 

 

Permalink Reply by Mommy Monster on March 15, 2012 at 7:52am

I think it's a good point.  I've often argued that you can't legislate things to the nth degree.  There will always be outliers. 

 

mightyninjamom said:

I don't know about 'wrong' or 'not feminist'...perhaps 'idealistic' is a better word.

I've often thought that in governing people, it's good to have ideals, but they tend to only work in the best possible scenarios. Reality dictates that we have to govern in a way that takes into account that people make mistakes.

Permalink Reply by Mommy Monster on March 15, 2012 at 7:53am

It seems that the consensus here is that when it comes to abortion, it's an all or nothing kind of situation because the slope is too slippery otherwise, especially when factoring in other things like access to contraception, healthcare and support for moms/kids.  I appreciate the food for thought.

Permalink Reply by mcglory13 on March 15, 2012 at 8:19am

While trying to avoid sounding condescending, like I said, "tone" is really tricky on the internet. We don't read things as they are intended a vast majority of the time (and again, I'm not meaning to tell you something you already know). On topics like this, we are probably even more likely to misread people's "tone." 

It's very difficult to separate out the larger world, which is currently passing insane legislation on what women can and cannot do with their bodies with other conversations. Many of those people start that legislation with anecdote and/or fake statistics. 

So I'm sorry that my response offended you. It wasn't meant to. I was responding to an argument, that many people start with your anecdote and follow it up with those beliefs. Whether you believe that or not was really not my point, and I'm sorry I got sidetracked into what seemed like a personal thing with you. It's the legislators that do that worry me. 

Permalink Reply by Mommy Monster on March 15, 2012 at 8:24am

Thanks, I appreciate it.  And I apologize if I'm being over sensitive.  You are totally right about the lack of tonal context on the interwebs...


Makes me wish I had friends IRL! :)

mcglory13 said:

While trying to avoid sounding condescending, like I said, "tone" is really tricky on the internet. We don't read things as they are intended a vast majority of the time (and again, I'm not meaning to tell you something you already know). On topics like this, we are probably even more likely to misread people's "tone." 

It's very difficult to separate out the larger world, which is currently passing insane legislation on what women can and cannot do with their bodies with other conversations. Many of those people start that legislation with anecdote and/or fake statistics. 

So I'm sorry that my response offended you. It wasn't meant to. I was responding to an argument, that many people start with your anecdote and follow it up with those beliefs. Whether you believe that or not was really not my point, and I'm sorry I got sidetracked into what seemed like a personal thing with you. It's the legislators that do that worry me. 

Permalink Reply by DLBK on March 16, 2012 at 7:03pm

Interesting topic and interesting replies. I also support a woman's right to end a pregnancy at any gestational age and for any reason. I have to admit that I'd be very uncomfortable with someone ending a healthy, viable pregnancy in the 3rd trimester, but I don't think it's my right to have a say in her decision.

Permalink Reply by GreenLantern on April 4, 2012 at 3:53pm

I have my opinions on abortion, and I can say with almost absolute certainty that I am uncertain, as my opinion changes on this all the time...usually based on different stories I read. When I hear that someone had a late term abortion because they just didn't want a kid, that makes me mad. Then I hear that someone had an abortion for legit reasons...health to the mother, the fetus isn't right...then I think that having a law completely banning abortions is wrong. Also, since I am of the male persuasion, I kinda feel my opinion might not be as valid as someone who is of the female persuasion. It's such a case by case basis, and it's such a touchy subject, especially with the religious folk, that I tend to stick away from the discussion. 

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