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Pay to pray, or fee for services rendered?
The Mister and I had a little difference of opinion today and I won't say who thinks what just for the sake of fair argument.
Say there is something you want done by a priest. Like a blessing of an object. But you are not a part of that church, you do not pay a tithe, you've never even been there or given them anything before.
Are you within reason to just ask them to bless this object or should you slip a tenner into the collection plate?
Just so we're clear, one side of this argument states that one should be contributing something in the church in reciprocation. The other side argues that the Vatican has enough money already and because a blessing is not a consumable product one should not feel compelled pay for it or beholden to the church in any way for a quick little blessing.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by kanachick on -
Pay.
I'm not Catholic though so blessing anything other than a baby or a marriage is outside of my comfort zone.
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Permalink Reply by jenra on -
I was raised Catholic and am an atheist. The Mister was free-ranged and they never went to church but if people invited him he went.
I think that it's nice to give to the church if you're asking them for something, they really do a lot of good for the community and well, it's a service. They are doing something for you. Personally I don't give a shit if something has been blessed, but he had a passing fancy about getting an object blessed. I said sure, but you have to go to the religious supply store, buy the thing, and take it to a church to get it blessed. I do not care about it, so I'm not going to.
He (jokingly) balked at the thought of paying. The vatican already has too much money! What, are we going to start buying concessions next? Where do I draw the line? He argues that it's not a consumable product so they shouldn't be paid for it.
I argued that it's skilled labor, someone had to pay the overhead to allow you to walk into that church to get the service, and really, the churches in our area help out a lot. They have cheap daycares and during the summer several days a week kids can come and have free lunch. Low income families are encouraged to apply for things like used furniture, they have a food bank, adult literacy classes are held there. It's not all stuffing the pope's pockets or molesting people.
He's decided it's all too complicated and is very sorry he ever brought anything up.
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Permalink Reply by CrazyPlateFace on
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I was raised Catholic and am an atheist (and a plaigiarist--sorry, jenra).
If you do indeed want the blessing, disagree with the socioeconomic status of the Church, but appreciate the efforts of your parish priest, could you possibly offer the blessor himself (almost instinctively typed "him- or herself, before realizing I didn't have to--thanks, institutionalized sexism!) a small, more personal gift comparable to whatever you might pay for the blessing? I don't see this situation as analogous to other services-rendered situations; the priests in my hometown, at least, were always on duty, never closed, and were happy to render a blessing.
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Permalink Reply by wookie on -
Kýrie, eléison; Christé, eléison; Kýrie, eléison.
Christ has come, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.
30+ years away from the church and it still has that mythical quality. I feel like if I don't complete the saying that something bad will happen, like if I had summoned Beetlejuice or Bloody Mary or something.
Does anyone else have that kind of relationship with the RC mythos?
John T. Capp said:He has risen!
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Permalink Reply by The Oracle on -
Oh, sure. I was raised Catholic and am now ... dunno. A spiritual agnostic? I feel best in a UU church. But the Catholic ritual is pretty deeply rooted in my blood, and (very, very) occasionally I will go to Mass just because I like the ritual. I feel like it's a really, really different level than pedophile priests and duplicitous bishops.
wookie said:Does anyone else have that kind of relationship with the RC mythos?
John T. Capp said:He has risen!
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Permalink Reply by ks on -
Yes.
I was raised Catholic and am now an atheist (hi Jenra and CPF) and on the rare occasions I find myself at mass, mostly weddings and funerals these days, I feel like I *must* participate and I know all the responses, when to kneel, and all that. I can even do most of it in Latin (and our church only did Latin mass on holy days and such). And, even though I have serious, serious issue with the church and the idea of religion in general, I am still find mass to be very comforting--I miss the pomp and ritual sometimes. The level of indoctrination is spooky.
wookie said:Kýrie, eléison; Christé, eléison; Kýrie, eléison.
Christ has come, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.
30+ years away from the church and it still has that mythical quality. I feel like if I don't complete the saying that something bad will happen, like if I had summoned Beetlejuice or Bloody Mary or something.
Does anyone else have that kind of relationship with the RC mythos?
John T. Capp said:He has risen!
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Permalink Reply by Pauperfamilias on -
My experience is that a church community expects to support its pastor and pastoral activities. You shouldn't feel compelled at all to pay for services. Some people feel it's polite to offer a token gift to the pastor and altar servers at weddings, funeral services and the like. That seems like a nice custom to me, but not really enough to constitute payment. In short, if you'd like a blessing, just ask for it.
Just a note on Catholic parish funds. In the parishes around my area the operating funds, including salary for the priest, are paid for by the weekly collections. There are no funds that come from "The Vatican" nor is there a tax by the pope. The parish expenses typically include staff salaries, utilities, mortgage/rent payments, local outreach expenses, and support to Catholic schools (usually in the form of scholarships.) This is all paid for out of the collection plate, which is often some kind of electronic funds transfer.
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Permalink Reply by DLBK on -
I suppose I'd pay for having something blessed, although I can't imagine what that something would be.
I would think that most people who care enough to have something blessed also care enough to belong to a church and can just ask their priest to do it.
Am I wrong?
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Permalink Reply by Mamawho on
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My FIL is a Presbyterian deacon and my MIL is something-or-other lay position. They can't come to a decision about where to go for Sunday lunch.
Alan said:Herasmus B. Dragon said:I'm a Presbyterian so every decision must be made by committee.
I have a Presbyterian church as a client and this statement made me laugh out loud.
I'd say a donation offering is valid if you like the church and people involved there. I presume you all do as you want the blessing done there?
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Permalink Reply by Boring User Name on -
Is said donation tax-deductible? If the blessing is services rendered then there is value attached and it's not actually a donation? (I know there are IRS regs on this..)
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Permalink Reply by Alan on -
Indeed there is! And purely spiritual / religious benefits don't count as anything of value to the IRS!
[insert jokes here please]
So all the $$ paid could be tax deductible.
Daria said:Is said donation tax-deductible? If the blessing is services rendered then there is value attached and it's not actually a donation? (I know there are IRS regs on this..)
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Permalink Reply by Pauperfamilias on
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It's tax deductible because your gift is a donation, not really payment for a service. That's partly why I said earlier that most church communities take care of their operating costs from the collection plate. That way, the money can be accounted for and the church members can get a receipt for the IRS.
Alan said:Indeed there is! And purely spiritual / religious benefits don't count as anything of value to the IRS!
[insert jokes here please] So all the $$ paid could be tax deductible.
Daria said:Is said donation tax-deductible? If the blessing is services rendered then there is value attached and it's not actually a donation? (I know there are IRS regs on this..)
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